Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
progress on my e-waves
Just an update on my econowave progress (pic attached). Got one cabinet built and playing, using the Dayton Pro 15" PA380-8, the Selenium D220/PH612, and the standard econowave <95dB crossover. I think its 1.6 cu ft tuned to 48Hz (don't have my notes handy). Sounds really great! Gets really loud with amazing clarity. I had tried this crossover and D220/PH612 with the Advent cabinet/woofer and could not get it to sound right, but this high efficiency 15" really matched up! There was some shoutiness around 1kHz, but running the Audyssey setup in my receiver seems to have tamed it. I have the L-pad all the way up, so I may re-wire the crossovers to the >95dB version (already have the components). I should have the 2nd econowave hooked up tonight. Then on to finishing the cabinets. I will post more pics when they are done and then maybe Zilch can induct me into the Econowaver's Club! Thanks for laying out the template.
Just an update on my econowave progress (pic attached). Got one cabinet built and playing, using the Dayton Pro 15" PA380-8, the Selenium D220/PH612, and the standard econowave <95dB crossover. I think its 1.6 cu ft tuned to 48Hz (don't have my notes handy). Sounds really great! Gets really loud with amazing clarity. I had tried this crossover and D220/PH612 with the Advent cabinet/woofer and could not get it to sound right, but this high efficiency 15" really matched up! There was some shoutiness around 1kHz, but running the Audyssey setup in my receiver seems to have tamed it. I have the L-pad all the way up, so I may re-wire the crossovers to the >95dB version (already have the components). I should have the 2nd econowave hooked up tonight. Then on to finishing the cabinets. I will post more pics when they are done and then maybe Zilch can induct me into the Econowaver's Club! Thanks for laying out the template.
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Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
It's funny. Lately I've been reading comments about certain companies using a high-efficiency 15" woofer to achieve a 12"-woofer sound with better efficiency (In other words, it sounds like a great 12" design, only you don't need as much power to make it sound as good). It makes sense.
Russellc
Addicted Member
jhoyt
Incomprehensible space llama
So, I find myself in possession of (count 'em) two working power amps, one a nice Sansui BA-2000, and a nice Magnavox 9304 PP EL84 tube jobbie. Of course, now I'm thinking about a way to bi-amp the E-waves!
Here's a couple questions, is passive (through the existing crossover) or active better? I did a cursory reading of information on the MiniDSP, and it looks pretty neat. However, what about a DIY project: a simple buffer stage with negative feedback shaping the crossover point and slope, and HF compensation. Make sense at all? Or is this just not a good idea with these speakers?
Also, since the drivers cross over right in the middle of the midrange, would it be noticeable if the HF and LF amps were not voiced the same? As it turns out, the Sansui and Magnavox are very similar in sound, but they will never be identical.
Oh, and I heard good things about the Selenium ND2500 (or whatever) driver, how much of an upgrade over the 220Ti is it?
Here's a couple questions, is passive (through the existing crossover) or active better? I did a cursory reading of information on the MiniDSP, and it looks pretty neat. However, what about a DIY project: a simple buffer stage with negative feedback shaping the crossover point and slope, and HF compensation. Make sense at all? Or is this just not a good idea with these speakers?
Also, since the drivers cross over right in the middle of the midrange, would it be noticeable if the HF and LF amps were not voiced the same? As it turns out, the Sansui and Magnavox are very similar in sound, but they will never be identical.
Oh, and I heard good things about the Selenium ND2500 (or whatever) driver, how much of an upgrade over the 220Ti is it?
4343
Super Member
If you have wired the inputs to the HF and LF sections of the Std Ewave XO separately, it works great. Just feed the same full range signal to both amps with a Y-Cable or separate pre-amp outs. As long as one has input attenuators or volume controls it should work. Usually the HF amp needs to be turned down a bit to balance with the LF amp, even though the output power available is less, especially if you do eventually eliminate the L-pad and go full active. I think the tweeter padding is part of the CD compensation though, so I would start with just taking out the cap and coil (the core XO) from the woofer and the input side of the HF if you do go with an electronic crossover. If you don't have volume control on the HF amp, leave the L-Pad too. (I put 100W L-Pads in my portable system so they won't possibly fry outdoors, YMMV.)
The main benefits of Bi-Amping are from eliminating the inductor on the woofer, which tightens the bass, and eliminating the possibility of bass notes clipping the amp and being heard in the tweeter. At high levels a little clipping in the bass amp will mud up the bass, but as long as the treble amp is still clean, it's not so obvious that it's happening.
The 2500 sounds a little less harsh to me at high power levels. Normal levels it's harder to tell them apart, you'll have to make the determination whether the greater outlay is worth it yourself. For me, I put them into cabs that have to be lifted on and off tall tripod stands, so the weight difference was the decider...
There was some discussion early on about using tube amps for the waveguide, you might need to read up on that. (Something about providing a load for the LF being fed to the tube amp that was not being properly damped by the HF-only load, IIRC.
gainphile
Member
We had a GTG here in Melbourne on Saturday and Antripodean brought a pair of JBL PT wg. Comparing them to the DCJity ones, they are definitely the same.
Picture of the Advent Ewaves, just completed here:
The owner built the black grilles, out of hardwood plywood, beveled and covered. I think he did just fine. :thmbsp:
Regards,
Gordon.
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audiothings
New Member
Beyma 12BR70 a good replacement for Dayton DC-300?
I have bought all the components for the standard kit except for the woofer and waveguide. The shipping of the Dayton woofer (to India) is costing much more than the cost of the woofer and this is really bothering me. I also have build quality worries over the Dayton... if I get a defective piece, I'm totally screwed, can't afford to pay two more times for shipping.
Beyma has a dealer here and I should be able to get the 12BR70 at a more reasonable price. It has similar frequency response, with peaks around 150 Hz and 2 Khz... but its about 4 dB more efficient and has slightly better Xmax. The Beyma, however has a higher fs... 35 Hz vs 26 Hz. I intend to put these in fairly large cabinets tuned to about 35 Hz... is this going to be a problem?
I have bought all the components for the standard kit except for the woofer and waveguide. The shipping of the Dayton woofer (to India) is costing much more than the cost of the woofer and this is really bothering me. I also have build quality worries over the Dayton... if I get a defective piece, I'm totally screwed, can't afford to pay two more times for shipping.
Beyma has a dealer here and I should be able to get the 12BR70 at a more reasonable price. It has similar frequency response, with peaks around 150 Hz and 2 Khz... but its about 4 dB more efficient and has slightly better Xmax. The Beyma, however has a higher fs... 35 Hz vs 26 Hz. I intend to put these in fairly large cabinets tuned to about 35 Hz... is this going to be a problem?
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Last edited:
Heathki AS-101 (similar to Altec Valencia 846A) Econowave Project
New econowave project here. I want to econowave my Heathkit AS-101 speakers (8 ohms). As you all know, these are similar to the Altec Valencia 846A speakers (16 ohms) that have the 811a horn mounted inside a rectangular cutout. The horn takes up most of the space in the cutout and the remaining uncovered area (vents) are the tuning ports for the woofer.
I have been running the AS-101's with the bolt-on Selenium 220Ti drivers on the 811a horns and original recapped crossovers.
I hope to fit a QSC 152i waveguide (I have coming from a fellow AKer) with my bolt-on 220Ti drivers to a new baffle board (it will be a tight fit if it fits at all).
Instead of having the original "horn-port combo", I want to make round ported vent tubes like on the Valencia 846B. Here is a link to the 846B drawing showing square shaped ported vent tubes, however, nowhere have I found evidence that square vent tubes were ever installed by the factory.
http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/plans/1974-enc-design/page23.jpg
I have searched but cannot find the ID and length of the 846B round ported vent tubes. Is it possible the dimensions on the drawing above are correct, it is just the depiction of a square tube rather than round that is in error?
New econowave project here. I want to econowave my Heathkit AS-101 speakers (8 ohms). As you all know, these are similar to the Altec Valencia 846A speakers (16 ohms) that have the 811a horn mounted inside a rectangular cutout. The horn takes up most of the space in the cutout and the remaining uncovered area (vents) are the tuning ports for the woofer.
I have been running the AS-101's with the bolt-on Selenium 220Ti drivers on the 811a horns and original recapped crossovers.
I hope to fit a QSC 152i waveguide (I have coming from a fellow AKer) with my bolt-on 220Ti drivers to a new baffle board (it will be a tight fit if it fits at all).
Instead of having the original "horn-port combo", I want to make round ported vent tubes like on the Valencia 846B. Here is a link to the 846B drawing showing square shaped ported vent tubes, however, nowhere have I found evidence that square vent tubes were ever installed by the factory.
http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/plans/1974-enc-design/page23.jpg
I have searched but cannot find the ID and length of the 846B round ported vent tubes. Is it possible the dimensions on the drawing above are correct, it is just the depiction of a square tube rather than round that is in error?
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zog666
Active Member
I was considering the Beyma for my Econowave upgrade (from another woofer).. the only reason I didn't go with it was I'd have to redo my baffle - I didn't run up all of the modelling, etc though.
The standard econowave crossover probably would need a bit of adjustment - but part of the concept, I think is that you can match it with a range different woofers by tweaking the crossover component values to suit.
There are some posts here on parts express and here from someone using the 12BR70 in a design quite similar to an econowave - he seems very happy with the results.
I think those drawings are "constructor kit" cabinet drawings, rather than depictions of actual Altec production designs.
As for length/diameter of the round vents you need- if you post the internal dimensions of the AS101 cabinets, we might be able to model the 416 in that exact cabinet... and maybe even get improved results compared to what would happen with simply sticking the Valencia ports in there. Using modern T/S parameter analysis for that woofer in that exact box, might well lead to better results...
Regards,
Gordon.
Wayne Parham
Active Member
I'm with you, wondering. Evan and I stay in touch. We had been emailing a lot lately until about a week or two ago, when his replies abruptly stopped. At first I thought he was just busy with something, but as time passes, I grow increasingly concerned.
sdriscol
Active Member
I have finally finished. Over the last year and a half I have been gathering the necessary parts. Well today I have finished the assembly and oh my god do they sound great.
For my build I used the following:
Pioneer HPM-150 cabinets
Pyle Pro PPA15 woofers
Selenium D220Ti-8 driver
Pyle Pro PH612 waveguide
My crossover was built from the recommended settings in the Ewave build thread.
I have attached a pic of the final (so far) product. I have some finishing to do, all cosmetics. I need to make up some grills to keep the boys wandering hands off of them.
You can see more pictures in my post here: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4314053#post4314053
For my build I used the following:
Pioneer HPM-150 cabinets
Pyle Pro PPA15 woofers
Selenium D220Ti-8 driver
Pyle Pro PH612 waveguide
My crossover was built from the recommended settings in the Ewave build thread.
I have attached a pic of the final (so far) product. I have some finishing to do, all cosmetics. I need to make up some grills to keep the boys wandering hands off of them.
You can see more pictures in my post here: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4314053#post4314053
Attachments
Picture of the Advent Ewaves, just completed here:
The owner built the black grilles, out of hardwood plywood, beveled and covered. I think he did just fine. :thmbsp:
Regards,
Gordon.
Very nice GW. How does the new owner like them?
Great looking eWaves. Those sure are big muthas. How do they sound?
sdriscol
Active Member
They sound amazing. My SX-780 is not quite powerful enough for them and I can see where I could really use an equalizer. I am very happy with what I now have,
Russellc
Addicted Member
Hm-m-m-m-m-m New E'wave picys and no Zilch to assign them numbers.
Something about this isnt quite right.:sigh:
Russellc
