Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

GordonW said:
Response of the D2500Ti-Nd, in general, seems to very closely match the D220Ti around the crossover point. The D2500 is just a little "better behaved", both in a lack of distortion/breakup at the bottom end, and a little smoother response in the upper octave...

You will likely wind up turning down the L-pad a tad more (the D2500 is about 1.5dB louder than the D220, or so)... that's about it.

Regards,
Gordon.
Click to expand...

So in other words, I don't need to alter the crossover? In your opinion, is it worth spending 85 bucks as an upgrade from a D220ti?

Thanks!
 
wilberforce said:
So in other words, I don't need to alter the crossover? In your opinion, is it worth spending 85 bucks as an upgrade from a D220ti?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Or, on the other hand, would I be better off going an extra 40 bucks for the B&C DE250? I see that one mentioned a lot in this thread.
 
Any feedback on whether KLH 33 speakers (only ported version of KLH's that I know of) would be a good candidate for Econowaves? Speaker has a 10" woofer so would have to go with a smaller waveguide. Which one would be a decent matchup?
 
wilberforce said:
So in other words, I don't need to alter the crossover? In your opinion, is it worth spending 85 bucks as an upgrade from a D220ti?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I didn't have to alter the high-pass section at all.

That said, I tuned in the woofer to the D2500. I never had a D220 in the cabinet, so I never did a "back-to-back".

I'd still think that there would be very little difference- if any at all- in crossover tuning.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Selenium D2500ti comparo w/ DE250 or CDX1 1731

GordonW said:
omg...

I just finished the high-power E-waves... which I'm calling the "Big Black"s (to distinguish them from the "Big Reds" and "Little Reds"). Dual 15"s... top woofer is a custom-reconed JBL M1158A, bottom woofer is a custom-reconed B52 15". Dayton 6512 horn flare (same as PH612), and Selenium D2500Ti-ND. It's wired as a 2.5 way (bottom woofer bass only).

Well, I have to say... the Selenium D2500 lives up to the hype. The little bit of "tizziness" or "metallic texture" on the top of the D220Ti (15K-up region)? It's not there at all on the D2500. Neither is the tiny bit of "raspiness" on the bottom end (around 1.5KHz). Not a bit of histrionics, of any kind. Just SMOOOOOOTH. And detailed. This is, in fact, the best imaging and instrument "sonic texture" I've heard from ANY of the E-wave systems I've built myself, or heard elsewhere, so far.

I'm building up a pair of Z19 crossovers for a client to use with the DE250s and Altec 416s... I hopefully will get to hear this system after completion (he lives a ways away from here), so I can compare the treble quality of the DE250 and the D2500Ti. My gut instinct says the D2500 may well match or better it, from what I've heard of both of them to this point...

Nice thing, is that the extra sensitivity of the D2500, makes even higher-efficiency systems plausible. Even with a 99dB sensitivity woofer-section in the system I just finished (using the high-efficiency version of the crossover), the L-pad is still less than 2/3s of the way up. This combo should support 101dB woofers, easily... maybe even 102dB...

Regards,
Gordon.
Click to expand...

Gordon or others users, any further notes on your comparing these drivers? Also was the "custom cone" on the M1158A just for repair or does it also change the T & S to better results....:scratch2:

I am still chasing after the still higher eff waveguide thang also:banana:...

Thanks to you Zilch, Gordon and all others for your many contributions here and elsewhere...:thmbsp:
 
JoMoCo said:
Gordon or others users, any further notes on your comparing these drivers? Also was the "custom cone" on the M1158A just for repair or does it also change the T & S to better results....:scratch2:
Click to expand...

The cone change on the JBL M115-8A was more for frequency response and upper-end breakup mode control, than anything else. The dustcap was also changed from paper to felt, for the same reason. While the stock M115-8A had a pretty nasty breakup "spike and hole" in the response, the new cone/dustcap has a gently rising response (by comparison), and is easier to filter in the crossover (a lot like the rising response in the LE14 was dealt with, in essence).

The T/S parameters didn't change too much, other than from the softer spider (which DID lower the resonance, which did make tuning in-box a little easier). With the softer suspension, the Vas went up, the resonance went down, and the Q went down... they sort of 'canceled out' somewhat as far as ultimate f3 in the box was concerned (they still used a very similar size box), but a different port tuning was used (lower port frequency)...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
NEWSFLASH: Original Large Advent E-waves just completed. Listening to them as I type.

As usual, they sound excellent.

Normal E-wave crossover, but with a Zobel of 15 ohms and 10uf across the woofer.

These will be going home with their owner tomorrow. I think he's in for a treat.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Just out of curiosity, I hooked up my E'waves to a small 8 wpc tube amp and my iPod. All I can say is...WOW. It's amazing what this little amp can do with these things! They sound better than ever (the sound is warmer and more balanced), and I even had them on an EQ previously. I will admit that I have my iPod's bass boost enabled, just to make up for the lack of bass in the PA woofers. There's still not much low bass, but it's an improvement. I would keep this amp if only I could use my TT with it. Unfortunately, I don't have an outboard phono preamp. Right now, though, I'm just enjoying the moment. :music:

UPDATE: Found a solution to the turntable problem. I decided to use my previous integrated amp as a preamp. I have all my sources going into it, and the Tape Out goes to the tube amp. Volume on the integrated is all the way down and the speaker switches are off.
 
Last edited:
GordonW said:
The cone change on the JBL M115-8A was more for frequency response and upper-end breakup mode control, than anything else. The dustcap was also changed from paper to felt, for the same reason. While the stock M115-8A had a pretty nasty breakup "spike and hole" in the response, the new cone/dustcap has a gently rising response (by comparison), and is easier to filter in the crossover (a lot like the rising response in the LE14 was dealt with, in essence).

The T/S parameters didn't change too much, other than from the softer spider (which DID lower the resonance, which did make tuning in-box a little easier). With the softer suspension, the Vas went up, the resonance went down, and the Q went down... they sort of 'canceled out' somewhat as far as ultimate f3 in the box was concerned (they still used a very similar size box), but a different port tuning was used (lower port frequency)...

Regards,
Gordon.
Click to expand...

Thanks Gordon, by any chance have you worked with the 12" version (M112?) and would it be any better potential candidate for a hi-eff ewave? ... :scratch2:
I am still collecting parts ...:thmbsp:
Regards,
Jon
 
JoMoCo said:
Thanks Gordon, by any chance have you worked with the 12" version (M112?) and would it be any better potential candidate for a hi-eff ewave? ... :scratch2:
I am still collecting parts ...:thmbsp:
Regards,
Jon
Click to expand...

No reason it wouldn't work. There is an analogous cone, available in 12", similar to the 15" cone I used for my mod recones. In fact, I've built a number of 12" drivers on various frames, for E-wave use and other similar applications (i.e, a 12" that needed to go to 1200 or 1500 Hz or so), using that cone...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Zilch -- do you have or know of available on-axis and off-axis measurements for the JBL 123A-1 woofer on its own? I thought I saw some in this thread somewhere, but can't find them.
 
Has anyone used the Mini DSP two way electronic crossover? It is only 99 bucks and has the functionality of the big digital DBX or Behringer crossovers. At 99 bucks, it is less expensive than building the ewave crossovers.


http://www.minidsp.com/


.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

L
Can I turn a JBL Jrx115 into econowave?
Replies
4
Views
1K
dumptruck
D
DENNYDOG
My Barzilaywave project
2 3
Replies
44
Views
12K
djnagle
djnagle
Jcricket
What is a very good 15" 4 ohm woofer?
Replies
4
Views
978
Jcricket
Jcricket
Pete B
Bracing the New Large Advent (NLA) Cabinet and Econowave - Pete Basel
Replies
16
Views
3K
Pete B
Pete B
A
Kudos for AK
Replies
0
Views
389
alsop
A
Back
Top Bottom